Nice one man! I admire you for openly questioning these things. I'm totally with you in feeling a strange sort of skepticism and curiosity for all these very smart people in our world and in history (ie Newton, Galileo, Dostoyevsky, Tolkien, etc.) who were Christians. It's something to pay attention to.
I had 3 things come up:
1) What are other "obvious falsehoods" that the Bible talks about, beyond what you mentioned in this article? I say "the Bible" carefully because there are a lot of things that Catholics believe that are stated nowhere in the Bible. I remember you saying you've heard all the arguments, and I would've loved to see you walk through them! (Perhaps in a more extensive part 2?)
2) On your point of upbringing, I actually know a guy who was raised Muslim but then he became a believer later in his life after he was married and had kids! Same with another guy who was raised Hindu. Both are convinced that Islam and Hinduism and all other religions are the devil's religions, which is just a fascinating viewpoint that I currently have no opinion on. It is strange how Christianity is so binary: either you're all in or you're not. Black or white but no Mexican. Weird.
3) I believe Christian morality is True and Good, but the whole Bible? I'm with you. That's a hard one to say, which I think warrants a long-term exploration and actual reading of the Bible itself. My thought is, if the people who I admire the most are believers, what would make it true for me to believe the things they do? What would it mean if the Bible was true, and that ever since Eve, man is doomed and needs redemption and that pride is autonomy from God? It must mean something. It must mean something. Maybe that something is something that I will never be able to put into words.
Anyways, I'm really excited for both of our learning journeys to continue!
When I look at the way humans think, including myself, I remember that there are hundreds of documented confirmation biases that describe shortcut (but faulty) wiring that our brain uses to make meaning out of our lives. We function on narrative, and the chances of it being accurate or objective are next to nil. That helps me remember to try and have a sense of humor about the human experiment, and not take myself, or the behavior of others too seriously.
What a line: “That helps me remember to try and have a sense of humor about the human experiment, and not take myself, or the behavior of others too seriously.” Agreed.
I think the quote from Dawkins may be helpful in exploring your question.
He’s insulted by the idea that humanity, deprived of religion, could only turn to something “equally irrational”
I would ask: What does ‘irrational’ even mean in such a context? If there is no God, no creator, then by definition there is no objective meaning to our existence. Absent some kind of intent from a creator, our existence means nothing more than whatever subjective purpose we assign to it.
If life does have no objective meaning, then words like good and evil also lose any objective meaning. If our reality is all just a coincidence, then none of our actions carry any real moral weight outside of our own subjective preferences.
I’m wiling to bet you’ve got a pretty good intuitive grasp on right and wrong, good and evil. What does any of that mean if the universe is just an accident? If we’re just some anomalous coincidence on a rock in space, why does anything we do matter at all?
This leads to a couple of important questions: Do you believe that human life has any objective purpose or meaning? Are good and evil real? In a concrete and objective way?
If the answer is Yes, it points to only one conclusion. If No, we shouldn’t bother thinking much more about anything, because nothing has any value.
Sorry for being longwinded. I very much relate to your position as it’s one that I also held for many years. I don’t know if intelligence has that much to do with making the leap, though. It may be more about how we relate to the world around us and our own intuitions and subconscious experience. That will vary for each individual. Keep exploring your thoughts on these things, there’s nothing more important to think about.
Hey good to hear from you! I appreciate such a thoughtful comment.
My intuition is that yes good and evil are real, and that meaning and purpose in life are indeed subjective, created by each individual in their mind.
I don’t know how to reconcile those two statements. It’s a problem I grapple with all the time.
I recently argued that there is no ultimate meaning of life, but that is a good thing because it allows for individual meaning-making and infinite learning and exploration.
Again what that means for objective good and evil, which my intuition also tells me is real, I don’t know.
Hi Jeff. Evolution has been proven wrong. The Godless state still brainwashes school children unfortunately. God gets in their way. If Darwin was correct, there would be loads of transitional fossils. But there aren’t any. Gene mutations in creatures never happened. A fin did not become a leg. Even the Lucy fossil turned out to be pieced together from different bones. Jesus Christ rose from the dead. True. Have you seen the recent findings on the shroud of Turin? Pretty incredible.
Did you ever hear of “Pascal’s Wager”?
Check it out. You’ll like it!
I hear what you’re saying about feeling fraud at some masses. I’ve been to some. Those are the churches of men. Not of God.
Get to the One true Apostolic Church. Make it Latin too. 😃
Find one you like and feel is the best way to give glory to God.
I’ve had eras of full belief yes. Currently, deep down, regarding the question of God, my gut simply says: “I don’t know, but I really hope so.” I would not describe myself as an atheist. But I don’t subscribe to any religion, and I don’t have faith.
Nice one man! I admire you for openly questioning these things. I'm totally with you in feeling a strange sort of skepticism and curiosity for all these very smart people in our world and in history (ie Newton, Galileo, Dostoyevsky, Tolkien, etc.) who were Christians. It's something to pay attention to.
I had 3 things come up:
1) What are other "obvious falsehoods" that the Bible talks about, beyond what you mentioned in this article? I say "the Bible" carefully because there are a lot of things that Catholics believe that are stated nowhere in the Bible. I remember you saying you've heard all the arguments, and I would've loved to see you walk through them! (Perhaps in a more extensive part 2?)
2) On your point of upbringing, I actually know a guy who was raised Muslim but then he became a believer later in his life after he was married and had kids! Same with another guy who was raised Hindu. Both are convinced that Islam and Hinduism and all other religions are the devil's religions, which is just a fascinating viewpoint that I currently have no opinion on. It is strange how Christianity is so binary: either you're all in or you're not. Black or white but no Mexican. Weird.
3) I believe Christian morality is True and Good, but the whole Bible? I'm with you. That's a hard one to say, which I think warrants a long-term exploration and actual reading of the Bible itself. My thought is, if the people who I admire the most are believers, what would make it true for me to believe the things they do? What would it mean if the Bible was true, and that ever since Eve, man is doomed and needs redemption and that pride is autonomy from God? It must mean something. It must mean something. Maybe that something is something that I will never be able to put into words.
Anyways, I'm really excited for both of our learning journeys to continue!
THANK YOU JEFF! SOLID! ORALE-JAIMITO
Appreciate you as always, Jim.
When I look at the way humans think, including myself, I remember that there are hundreds of documented confirmation biases that describe shortcut (but faulty) wiring that our brain uses to make meaning out of our lives. We function on narrative, and the chances of it being accurate or objective are next to nil. That helps me remember to try and have a sense of humor about the human experiment, and not take myself, or the behavior of others too seriously.
What a line: “That helps me remember to try and have a sense of humor about the human experiment, and not take myself, or the behavior of others too seriously.” Agreed.
Great read
Thank you for reading Danny good to see you here.
I think the quote from Dawkins may be helpful in exploring your question.
He’s insulted by the idea that humanity, deprived of religion, could only turn to something “equally irrational”
I would ask: What does ‘irrational’ even mean in such a context? If there is no God, no creator, then by definition there is no objective meaning to our existence. Absent some kind of intent from a creator, our existence means nothing more than whatever subjective purpose we assign to it.
If life does have no objective meaning, then words like good and evil also lose any objective meaning. If our reality is all just a coincidence, then none of our actions carry any real moral weight outside of our own subjective preferences.
I’m wiling to bet you’ve got a pretty good intuitive grasp on right and wrong, good and evil. What does any of that mean if the universe is just an accident? If we’re just some anomalous coincidence on a rock in space, why does anything we do matter at all?
This leads to a couple of important questions: Do you believe that human life has any objective purpose or meaning? Are good and evil real? In a concrete and objective way?
If the answer is Yes, it points to only one conclusion. If No, we shouldn’t bother thinking much more about anything, because nothing has any value.
Sorry for being longwinded. I very much relate to your position as it’s one that I also held for many years. I don’t know if intelligence has that much to do with making the leap, though. It may be more about how we relate to the world around us and our own intuitions and subconscious experience. That will vary for each individual. Keep exploring your thoughts on these things, there’s nothing more important to think about.
Hey good to hear from you! I appreciate such a thoughtful comment.
My intuition is that yes good and evil are real, and that meaning and purpose in life are indeed subjective, created by each individual in their mind.
I don’t know how to reconcile those two statements. It’s a problem I grapple with all the time.
I recently argued that there is no ultimate meaning of life, but that is a good thing because it allows for individual meaning-making and infinite learning and exploration.
Again what that means for objective good and evil, which my intuition also tells me is real, I don’t know.
Hi Jeff. Evolution has been proven wrong. The Godless state still brainwashes school children unfortunately. God gets in their way. If Darwin was correct, there would be loads of transitional fossils. But there aren’t any. Gene mutations in creatures never happened. A fin did not become a leg. Even the Lucy fossil turned out to be pieced together from different bones. Jesus Christ rose from the dead. True. Have you seen the recent findings on the shroud of Turin? Pretty incredible.
Did you ever hear of “Pascal’s Wager”?
Check it out. You’ll like it!
I hear what you’re saying about feeling fraud at some masses. I’ve been to some. Those are the churches of men. Not of God.
Get to the One true Apostolic Church. Make it Latin too. 😃
Find one you like and feel is the best way to give glory to God.
Thx Jeff. Keep ‘em coming!
Did you grow up believing in God And simply outgrew as you increased your awareness? Or never believed at all.
I’ve had eras of full belief yes. Currently, deep down, regarding the question of God, my gut simply says: “I don’t know, but I really hope so.” I would not describe myself as an atheist. But I don’t subscribe to any religion, and I don’t have faith.
Thank you for your reply and thank you for the moving piece you've written , it has shed light to a couple of misunderstandings that I had.